Guest: Nicole Donnelly Host: Beau Billington   Beau  00:00 Hello,  everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the free agent. Here we have Nicole Donnelly and Nicole, thank you so much for joining.   Nicole  00:42 Hi, Beau. So nice to see you. I’m so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.   Beau  00:48 I’m glad to hear thanks so much for joining in. I’ll just do a quick bio. So Nicole, the fourth generation small business owner and fierce advocate for small businesses, she loves helping SMBs succeed by taking the hassle, overhead and guesswork of marketing off the shoulders. Nicole provides strategic marketing support and lead marketing execution as a fractional CMO.   Beau  01:08 So, our customers can focus on what they do best, which is serving their own customers. So I think what you do is super topical and timely considering, you know, the gig economy and the huge movement here.   Beau  01:21 So I’d love for you to kind of share a little bit with the audience about yourself, your background, and how’d you get started as a fractional CMO?   Nicole  01:29 Yeah, great question. So I will tell you entrepreneurship, I feel like it runs in my blood. I have my father watched him grow business as a child from a solo entrepreneur to a company that has 30 employees. Now my grandfather owned a hotel right across the street from Disneyland of all places and my great grandfather owned an oil company.   Nicole  01:48 So I feel I’ve always felt very connected to small businesses from the time I was little and just feel like that’s kind of like in my DNA, if you will. So, I have always had a deep passion for helping small businesses succeed, I’ve seen directly how they’ve positively impacted families and communities and just love the whole underdog element of small business against the big corporate, you know, Bahamas, so yeah. So that’s how I got into this. I’ve always wanted to be an entrepreneur.   Nicole  02:16 I was working in house as a marketing manager for a manufacturing company, and literally came into that company, and built out their marketing department from nothing, they literally had no CRM to speak of, they had, you know, a very antiquated sales process, no marketing at all, and came into that business and really set in all of the marketing infrastructure for them, and built out an entire content marketing strategy, got them set up with a new CRM platform, implemented marketing, automation and workflows.   Nicole  02:49 And it was just really exciting and thrilling to see that transformation, how it transformed the business, and see the growth that came once they really went all in and really committed to investing in this marketing engagement. So that is what I’m passionate about. I love going into these small businesses who just really have been operating using these old sales methods and are ready to take their business to the next level of growth, or I just need some help getting there.   Beau  03:15 So it was that kind of the light bulb moment when you decided that it was time to start your own consultancy? Because I mean, now you’re a fractional CMO. So you were in corporate America, I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs.   Beau  03:26 So I guess maybe you were always compelled or you know, felt that that was your path. But when did you know that it was time? And how did you know that marketing area versus creating ecommerce or being you know, an influencer? Right?   Nicole  03:39 Great question.   Nicole  03:40 We were having such great success and I just loved it so much. And I thought, you know, I’d really love to do this for other businesses. And so I started putting the pieces in place. I started doing some planning of like, what would it look like if I took on my client, my employer as a client, right? So instead of working in house, I could be a CFO for them and then take on other clients.   Nicole  04:00 So I started to do some planning there and then out of the blue I got a phone call from a previous employer. This is probably after I’ve been thinking about this and planning for like three months.   Nicole  04:01 It was like the stars were aligned. I had an old player called me and said, Hey, look, I’d really love some help with our marketing. Will you help us? I thought to myself that if this isn’t a sign then I don’t know what is right.   Nicole  04:21 So I knew that it was time for me to take the leap. And so that’s when I decided to start my business, I approached my employer and they were gracious enough to take them on as a client and still have a wonderful relationship.   Beau  04:36 Rarely happens, you know, most employers I feel gonna get upset and get mad, but that’s the kind of relationship.   Nicole  04:43 Oh, yes, I’m so deeply grateful for that and for my previous employer for trusting me to come in and do that.   Nicole  04:52 So I started out with two clients, I feel incredibly blessed and grateful so many people I think, when they start their business or just like start wobbling and clawing away to get business for that first year, you know, so in many ways, I feel so blessed that I was able to start the way that I did. And since then it’s just been such a roller coaster, but I just love it. It’s wonderful. I wouldn’t trade it for the world living my dream.   Beau  05:14 No, I love that. There’s also a lot of parallels and similarities with my background and kind of how I started an entrepreneur story as well. And maybe that’s something we should say for another day on my other podcast, you know, finding that next year. That’s exciting.   Beau  05:27 So how long have you been in business and did independent now?   Nicole  05:30 I’ve been in business for almost three years. I started my business a month before COVID. So yeah, it was a crazy time to start. I’ll never forget that month when we were all shut down. It was sitting there. And I was like, What did I just do? Yes. Oh, my gosh.   Beau  05:44 But if you made it through that, I mean, candidly, you can make it through anything, right. I mean, I think two years in or maybe two and a half years in and it ended up being a good year, surprisingly. And that’s my mentality. It’s like, recession, no recession. I don’t care. I mean, that crap. Like  it’s all good here.   Nicole  06:02 Distraction.   Beau  06:03 Yeah, Absolutely.   Beau  06:05 Well, let’s get into some details here. Right. So you know, the purpose of this podcast is really trying to provide actionable insights to SMBs. You know, what can they do tomorrow with maybe on a shoestring budget. And so for the growth companies out there, you know, marketing is top of mind for all the middlemen like for my company, we’re small, you know, five people.   Beau  06:24 So, for the growth companies out there, when do they know that it’s perhaps time to outsource marketing to a consulting company, maybe a fractional CMO such as yourself, or bringing a full time CMO?   Beau  06:34 Because that’s a tough discussion, tough decision. cash outlay. There’s a lot of implications there and is it maybe it’s a three time process where you outsource? You use interim? Do you do it full time? I mean, what are your thoughts there?   Nicole  06:47 I think that’s such a great question and I would say the first thing as a business owner you think about is, how are your sales? Are your sales flat? Are you growing, I think if sales are flat, you’re a great candidate. If you’re getting most of your leads from referrals, or from your existing customers and you want to grow, then that’s a really great opportunity for you look at outsourcing, the other thing that I think is really important is to look at what your mindset is, because I’ve worked with companies who say that they want to grow and say that they want to invest in marketing, but then when the rubber meets the road, they’re not ready to make the transformation.   Beau  07:21 Because of risk aversion or what?   Nicole  07:23 Yes, I think risk aversion and to be honest, whenever you go through a marketing transformation and invest in it, it requires a lot of change, you know, it requires you to do things differently than what you’ve done before. And I think sometimes, you know, once it gets into that, a lot of business owners, they’re not ready to make that change. So you have to look, I think you have to be ready and make sure that you have alignment for your team.   Nicole  07:47 So I would say those are the main things, and then also, how profitable is your business? Are your net profit margins? You know, could they be better? That’s a good opportunity to invest in marketing to see how you can improve your products and services to make them more profitable.   Beau  08:01 No, I think that’s a phenomenal point. It’s tough for marketing, especially because, from my perspective, it’s like, where’s the ROI? And a lot of times, it’s six months out, maybe it’s eight months out, maybe it’s a year out? And so, you know, I’m always thinking, Where else can I invest that money, and marketing, so important, but it’s a call center until it’s not.   Beau  08:22 There’s no telling, you know, when it’s going to shift from a call center to a profit center. So that’s quite tough. So a couple of things as well, in regards to marketing. So where do you think a lot of these growth companies could get the biggest bang for their book, where they’re also kind of saving money, but able to invest a little bit in marketing, but get maximum value in return?   Nicole  08:43 Yes, I would say the first place I always recommend people start is to talk to your customers, it’s free. It doesn’t cost you anything. And so always talk to them, but not talking to them and like on a sales call, actually having a conversation with them specifically to understand and ask them, you know, what, what keeps you up at night? What are you angry about right now? You know, what do you wish were easier in your day to day life related to whatever it is the product or service that you’re asking and having those like really deep, intimate conversations with your customers first and foremost, it costs you nothing.   Beau  09:15 Right.   Nicole  09:15 The insights that you get from those conversations are gold, because ultimately, you’re here to serve your customers, any products and service you’re creating, it’s in service to them. So the closer that you can get to them and understand those challenges, the more it will help guide you in terms of what you need to do next. Right. So you know, that really will help you determine what marketing channels you need to be on. Right?   Beau  09:37 Right.   Nicole  09:37 So because that’s different for every business, you know, some businesses, their ideal buyer is going to be all over LinkedIn, some businesses, their ideal buyers on Instagram. So really understand your customer first before you try to think about things like, what are the tactics we need to do and what are the channels. So I would say that’s one thing that’s, you know, very cost effective.   Nicole  09:58 And then the second thing is, take that information from your customers? And really put down a list of questions like, what are the top questions that they have that they’re asking you over and over again, about your product, write those questions down. And then what we do with the process that we do for our existing clients that you can easily do in house, is we interview the subject matter experts. So in this case, you can just record yourself talking about those questions and answering them. And then, you know, Otter transcription service is completely free, you can just get an otter account and record the conversation. Now you have a transcript that you can very quickly and easily turn into a blog post.   Nicole  10:40 I think that’s for small business owners, that’s the key is just starting to create that content. That’s going to scale your sales department. That’s what it’s all about. It’s about taking those top questions, those top concerns that you’re hearing during your sales process, how can you move that conversation online? How can you create content and put it online to answer them so that you’re qualifying those customers before they call you. And I think that’s a really scrappy way you can do it by talking to your customers, really understanding them, taking that information, and just recording yourself, answering those questions, transcribing it, and turning it into a blog post and video.   Beau  11:19 It’s fantastic. I literally wrote down our subscription when you’re talking. One thing I want to add as well, is that I went through that exercise with my customers when I outsource, you know, kind of a fractional CMO, myself. And it was very insightful. And one thing I would suggest, and maybe you will agree with me or not agree with me. But you know you are using a third party to have those customer discussions, because you will ultimately have a third party that sat down with the customers, they agreed with it. It was quite disarming, I feel they’re also more honest with her than they would have been with me.   Beau  11:53 They provide us a lot of insights, it really helped with our messaging and helped with our pricing and overall strategy. Because again, I have conversations with customers and we also have friendships. I feel with this third party, they were brutally honest about what he’s really good at, here’s maybe some areas in which the free agent could kind of, you know, optimize a few things. And here’s what keeps us up at night. That really kind of helped us shift our focus. So I think it’s a great point, and again, I’m a big believer that some sort of third party that’s independent is a good source to kind of glean some extra additional information from the customers.   Nicole  12:28 Oh, I completely agree. I love it. I do that all the time, even just this week. I love doing those interviews with customers. For my clients. It is so fun, everything that you learn in those conversations. So I completely agree with you 100%. If you have the resources budget,   Beau  12:42 Yeah.   Nicole  12:42 Absolutely, get a third party to do it for you. That’s a really great point.   Beau  12:46 Awesome, thank you.   Beau  12:47 So as a follow up, is there a typical plan order of events that companies should really follow when they’re talking about marketing. So as an example, right now, my company we focus on outbound, we focus on SEO, SEM, social media, and we’re also kind of looking into PPC pay per click as like the next frontier. That’s what makes logical sense to me and my business and that’s also too though, you know, I haven’t talked to industry experts that said, Yes, that’s the correct path, though.   Beau  13:15 It’s just something that I’ve kind of cobbled together on my own, due to research and for a myriad of other kinds of reasons. But is that a decent plan of attack? And I realized that also is going to depend on what industry you’re in? But like, overall, is that a pretty overarching, like, decent strategy? Or would you maybe kind of swap a few things here on there?   Nicole  13:15 Great question. I’m gonna point out one thing you said, when you said due to research, so you had done the research first, to kind of figure out what made sense based on the conversations you have with your customers. And I would say start there, because where you market is going to depend entirely on who your audiences are. So I would say, like, as we mentioned earlier, talk to your customers, put that buyer persona together, understand where they like to be, where they like to live, and hang out, and then use that to kind of guide which channels that are going to make sense for your customer.   Nicole  14:06 So for example, you know, I have an industrial manufacturer, who is very niche, and so paid execute, paid search and organic search is SEO is a great play for them. Because it’s very easy to rank for keywords in a very niche industry, right? If you’re not competing against a ton of keyword traffic,   Beau  14:24 I’m competing against a ton of keyword traffic.   Nicole  14:26 Exactly, whereas if you’re in digital marketing like me, right, you really have to niche down even further and figure out okay, am I marketing to a specific, metal manufacturing companies, in that sense, it would make sense for you to do an organic SEO strategy, if you’re really have a broad target. SEO is really hard to rank for. So it depends on your customer, right? And what their audiences are, you know, I have another customer whose SEO would not really be the best place because it’s a dental laboratory and they have a very broad, it’s very broad keywords.   Nicole  15:05 So it depends entirely on your audience in your industry. You know what also like, if you’re in b2c, for example, it may make sense for you to work with influencers and Instagram, for example. So I say it depends. I know that’s not like a very specific answer depends entirely on your audience, where you should go and start first.   Beau  15:25 But I think it ties back to the research component, and that you need to know your market and who can dance, as you mentioned, your persona, and I guess probably starts there, right, creating a company persona, and building out the plan accordingly, which it’s so exhausting, though. Because there’s so many ways you can spend money on marketing, there’s so many marketers out there, right?   Beau  15:44 And, you know, like, SEO scares the hell out of me, honestly, because it’s such a black hole, and you never know if it’s going to be successful or not, which is kind of why I shifted that my strategy, like middle to, you know, out our ways,  kind of focus on a few things here, and then eventually build into the areas in which you’re starting to pay more money.   Nicole  16:03 I would say you’re doing SEO right now, by doing this content. I feel like at the end of the day, you have to think about what your customer, we’re here to help them. So anytime you’re creating a piece of content that helps them and answers their problem, pain challenges, that’s SEO. You know, that’s good SEO. So, it’s not the old days where you had to do all this keyword stuffing on the page and all that stuff. It’s really changed a lot. I think, if you’re creating really good content, you’re doing SEO right.   Beau  16:33 Well, good. That’s actually a follow up question I have. So let’s cable that and we’ll get to about two minutes. So a question that’s really near and dear to my heart is in regards to outbound and inbound. So right now, we’re doing a lot about outbound work, and my goal in 2022, was to flip the funnel, and really kind of have inbound, I’ve realized that that’s not a short term fix, right?   Beau  16:53 That’s more of a long term play. And so I’ve shifted from 2020, to focus now like 2023, like, maybe we can kind of, crack the code and flip the funnel and have inbound because, yes, may sound sounds selfish or opportunistic, but candidly, I’m going to be a position where I can cherry pick which clients or eight clients work with those and give them my best, right.   Beau  17:12 I mean, that’s really the goal. And so what are some actionable insights? Perhaps, maybe, for companies that are trying to flip the funnel and get more inbound lead flow? Does it tie back to kind of, digital marketing, digital media, social media, rather, podcasts like what companies can do, and maybe tomorrow to have a better footprint in hopes of kind of bringing driving more traffic to them?   Nicole  17:33 Absolutely, you have to position yourself as an expert in the industry to do that, you have to create content. So whether that’s podcasting, blogging, you know, whatever the case may be, create that content, and then use the waterfall approach, where you’re taking that large piece of content, and you’re chunking it out and distributing it across all of your social channels throughout the month.   Nicole  17:55 Let’s just say you do one podcast for the month, okay, then you can actually break that out into audio grams, and quote block and text blocks, and you just chunk it out, and you distribute it across your social media channels throughout the month. You’re repurposing something you’ve already created, and you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. So the more that you can create a process of creating that content on a regular basis on a regular cadence, that’s going to build you momentum over time, that’s going to help you increase that inbound traffic, inbound leads, and help you get the right people coming to you.   Nicole  18:43 And you’re right, it is a long game and it takes time to get there. But you know, another thing I recommend is just partnering with affiliates. That’s something I’ve done for my own business is really getting strategic about finding partners who sell similar services to you and can bring you in to clients and resell your services. I think that’s a really good way to do that, too. So anyway, but it’s all about persistently creating content.   Beau  19:11 So that’s the question I was gonna ask, right? Because one of the things we do is, we provide content and we push content, but the consistency component is what’s really lacking, because I get burned out and with kind of me getting burned out and we’re kind of start lacking content because I own the company, kind of cetera. So do you think do any big believer that consistency really is key to a strong digital marketing?   Nicole  19:39 Is it the secret that everybody sleeps on? Nobody can’t think about marketing. Everybody thinks, oh, you know, podcasts that’s so sexy. You know, this video marketing, it’s so sexy, but consistency is really the key to success. You know, consistency is really what’s going to make the difference. You have to be doing it over and over and over again, for at least six months to a year. And that’s when you’re gonna start to see the momentum built.   Beau  20:13 Six months to a year.   Nicole  20:16 I see that with my clients, they at first, you know, we’ll blog twice a month, and after three months, like nothing’s happening, what’s going on? We’ll get impatient and they get antsy.   Beau  20:27 Yeah.   Nicole  20:28 You wait that time period, and all of a sudden, it flips or it changes, so it’s like going to the gym, you can’t get a six pack in a week, you have to keep going over and over again.   Beau  20:41 It must be patient.   Nicole  20:42 Feel like they want something quick and fast and I wish I could tell you that there was a quick and fast solution. Well, there’s not. It is a long game, you know, it’s a long game.   Beau  20:54 So that was really become my last question was really the social media component, podcast and in you answer that question. So it really seems that like, the key to getting more exposure to flipping the funnel is really going to boil it down to content, and more importantly, consistent content.   Beau  21:09 So I’m creating a cadence, like, for instance, I tried to post a podcast every two weeks, like on Wednesdays, we share basically a snippet followed by the full episode on Friday. And that’s been difficult to keep up with, but I’ve got mechanisms in place, and have an admin that kind of takes care of the heavy lifting.   Beau  21:25 But sometimes you gotta go find, you gotta go to that dark place and get the energy and inspiration to continue to push the content out there, because we can all get burned out. And candidly, the latter part of last year, I got burned out, of course, you know, COVID, and a whole lot of stuff was going on.   Beau  21:40 But I literally stopped doing content, I stopped participating on LinkedIn, it was the one area that I just could not muster up the energy that since kind of realized the error of my ways, and it’s taken a while for me to get back and start kind of rebuilding what I walked away from. And so now I look back, and it’s like, holy crap, if I would have continued, I’d be in a much different space from an inbound perspective than I am now. Because I had to rebuild the momentum that I let dissipate.   Nicole  22:08 What made you come back? What was it that made you decide you needed to come back to?   Beau  22:12 I don’t know, I guess, I took the holidays off last year, as well just kind of, you know, decompress. And I feel like it’s me, I came back in 2022 inspired, but also to do a lot of soul searching, read a lot of books, and really did come to a conclusion similar to what you said that consistent content is really going to be the key to flipping the funnel. Also I enjoy doing podcasts, I enjoy content, but also finding the time to be creative, was a bit of a struggle.   Nicole  22:42 It is so hard as an entrepreneur, because we have to do so much and there’s so many hats. So I completely understand and respect I’ve been in it, I get it, and I feel it. It’s like leveraging your partners and helping them distribute it for you, too. If you can leverage, like this great content that you’re creating, you know, I’ll share it out on my LinkedIn posts and everything. So as much as possible, using your affiliates to kind of help you distribute it and kind of help you get that momentum work out.   Beau  23:08 You know, you also have to ask, right, I mean, some people that I talked to, that my podcasts are like, hey, share everything with me, I got it, I’m gonna push it out. And there’s others that, maybe you have a different mentality because they’re more timid in nature, or they haven’t had much exposure to it. And I think too, you just need to ask the people you’re collaborating with, if they’re open to kind of pushing it out on their channels, and nine out of 10 times, they wouldn’t be otherwise he probably wouldn’t be on the podcast.   Nicole  23:35 Yeah, you’re absolutely right. So I will tell you, I started engaging heavily on LinkedIn at the beginning of this year and I decided, I was like, this is the channel, I need to be on this market, I need to be creating content for this channel. It transformed my business, it has absolutely transformed my business, the relationships I’ve developed, and the partnerships that I’ve made, just in the last year has just made such a significant impact on my business. So I am a firm believer, from my own experience, and from my clients that if you keep consistently going at it and creating that content, it will eventually work out.   Beau  24:15 Which is the lesson for another day because perseverance, that cannot be. But cool, thanks so much for being on your time. So where can people find you in order to learn more about you and your business?   Nicole  24:25 Yes, you can find me on LinkedIn, my profile is Nicole Donnelly (linkedin.com/in/nicole-donnelly-dmg/). That’s my LinkedIn profile. You can also go to my website, which is donnellymgroup.com.   Beau  24:47 Also, be sure to post that on the video here. And hey, thanks so much for coming on. Real pleasure talking with you. And thanks for sharing your knowledge with the world.   Nicole  24:54 Thank you, Beau. It’s been a pleasure. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.